Craps Winstar Casino

On Sunday night, I took a date to the Winstar Casino in Oklahoma to do some gambling. I’ve never really done much gambling there besides playing poker. We didn’t have much fun at the slots, which seemed tight, so we decided to try the table games.

We started with roulette and went on to play blackjack. I knew in a vague way that the Winstar (like other Oklahoma casinos) charges an ante when you place a bet. But this was the first time I’d spent much time at the tables paying that ante on every hand of blackjack and every spin of the roulette wheel.

Being a gambling writer who’s especially interested in the math behind the games, I started thinking about how to quantify what this ante does to the house edge.

I had a math teacher in high school who insisted that I “show my work.”

That’s what I intend to do in this post. Calculate the house edge for the table games I played at the Winstar Casino, accounting for the antes.

What’s an Ante?

While researching I found (one of many great posts) a post by Alan Shank stating that they only had card craps in CA but it was good enough. I wish that I felt that way about Oklahoma's card craps. Here's the deal; For every come out roll, you have to pay a $1 ante - it's supposed to go to education or something in the state. FWIW, don't have a full trip report from my cousin yet, however the craps tables there are CARD-Craps (it seems dice-craps are illegal in OK). There's a youtube for card-craps in Tulsa. It looks to me like a lot of time is wasted shuffling and passing the shoe around! Winstar Casino Card Craps? For example, come out roll 7 winner, 2 craps, 11 yo, 3 craps, then point of 4. That will be $5 worth of antes. It’s $1 per come out. Pay By Mobile Casino Sites – List Of The Best Pay By Craps Online Bovada Phone Casinos. The Best Pay By Mobile Casino Sites are here! Players can pay by phone. Casino WinStar World Casino and Resort is home to thousands of games, but craps is truly one of the most exciting! Once you learn a few tips and tricks and understand the many different ways to bet, it is sure to be your new favorite game. As you play, you’ll make wagers on the outcome of the roll or a series of rolls.

An ante is a forced bet, usually in poker, that drives action to the game. In the Native American casinos in Oklahoma, it’s an amount you put up in addition to your bet that the house keeps whether you win, lose, or push.

It would be more accurate to describe this so-called “ante” as a fee for playing a hand of blackjack or for betting on a spin of the roulette wheel. The casinos love to use euphemisms to make a bad deal seem slightly better, and using the word “ante” instead of “fee” is just an example of this.

This has the obvious effect of costing you the amount of the fee multiplied by the number of bets you make. Even if you’re winning, the fees add up. They could easily be the difference between a winning session and a losing session.

How the Roulette Ante Affects the House Edge

The first weird thing about playing roulette at the Winstar Casino is that they don’t have an actual roulette wheel. There’s an animated roulette wheel that drives the results. That wasn’t THAT weird for me; I’ve played at plenty of online casinos that did the same thing.

But the online casinos use a random number generator program to produce their roulette results. That’s a computer program that generates thousands of numbers per second. When you hit the “spin” or “bet” button at an online casino, the RNG stops on whatever number it’s “thinking of” at that millisecond.

The roulette games at the Winstar Casino don’t work that way. They have a dealer with a deck of cards. The dealer scans the playing card into a machine, then the animated roulette wheel spins and lands on the space that corresponds to the card that was dealt.

I have no reason to think that the probability of the underlying game had changed. It was a standard American roulette wheel on the giant TV screen above the table. It had 38 possible results, 2 of which were green (the 0 and the 00). 18 of those results were black, while the other 18 were red, and so on.

The table limits weren’t unusual, either. $5 minimum on the outside bets, with a $500 maximum bet.

But I had to pay a $1 fee (the so-called “ante”) every time they spun the wheel.

I didn’t even realize that was the case until the dealer told me to put up the extra dollar.

How did that affect the house edge?

Let’s start by assuming that we’re going to “spin the wheel” 38 times, and we’re going to get statistically perfect results. We’ll also assume that I bet on black every time.

This means that I’ll win $5 on 18 spins, and I’ll lose $5 on 20 spins.

On top of that, I’m going to lose $1 on each of the 38 spins.

I have $90 in winnings, and $100 in losses on the spins. Add $38 to my losses, and I wind up with a net loss of $48 over 38 spins.

That’s an average loss of about $1.26 per spin.

Since I’m basically putting $6 into action on every spin, an average loss of $1.26 per spin equates to an average loss of 21% of my bet.

That’s a lot higher than a 5.26% loss per spin.

In fact, that’s TERRIBLE.

Can You Do Anything to Lower the House Edge on the Roulette Games at the Winstar?

Here’s the thing:

I’m a low roller. (As you can imagine, gambling writers don’t make that much money.)

But if you have a bigger bankroll than I do, you can lower the house edge by betting more each time they spin the wheel.

The fee for the roulette games (and the craps games, for that matter) at the Winstar Casino remains $1 regardless of whether you’re betting $5 per spin or $500 per spin.

What does that change the house edge to?

You do the math the same way, but the average losses as a percentage of the money you’re putting into action drop as you raise the size of your bets, as follows:

• If you’re betting $5 per spin, your average loss per spin is $1.26.
• If you’re betting $100 per spin, your average loss per spin is $6.26.
• If you’re betting $500 per spin, your average loss per spin is $27.32.

This means the house edge at each of these levels is:

• At $5, the house edge is 21%.
• At $100, the house edge is 6.2%
• At $500, the house edge is 5.45%.

Notice how at $500 per spin, the house edge is almost normal–normal being 5.26%.

But your sole goal shouldn’t be to get the house edge as low as possible. You should also consider your average cost of playing per hour.

The roulette games moved along at the Winstar at a good clip–about 50 spins per hour.

To calculate your average loss per hour, you multiply the number of bets per hour by the average size of your bet, and then you multiply that by the house edge.

For a $5 bettor, this means you’re putting $6 into action 50 times per hour, for $300 per hour in total action. With a house edge of 21%, you can expect to lose $63/hour.

For a $100 bettor, you’re putting $101 into action 50 times per hour, for $5050 in total action. With a house edge of 6.2%, you can expect to lose $313.10/hour.

For a $500 bettor, you’re putting $501 into action 50 times per hour, for $25,050 in total action. With a house edge of 5.45%, you can expect to lose $1365.23/hour.

The big difference is between the $5 and $100 mark–you’re betting 20 times as much per hand, but the difference in the house edge is so great that your expected losses only go up by a factor of 5.

You’ll need to decide for yourself how much an hour of roulette is worth to you, but keep in mind, too, that these are long term averages anyway. Even if you’re betting $5/hand, you could come out a winner in the short term.

In fact, even though a lot of gambling experts eschew the Martingale System, Michael Bluejay wrote an excellent page about how the system does increase your probability of having a small winning session in the short run. This will, of course, over time, be balanced out by some large losing sessions.

(The Martingale System worked well enough for me Sunday night that I broke even at the roulette tables.)

What about the Blackjack Ante?

I’m going to look at the blackjack math a little differently, but I also should point out that the ante rules for the blackjack games are different. The fee changes based on how much you’re betting, as follows:

• If you’re betting $5 to $99 per hand, the ante is 50 cents.
• If you’re betting $100 to $999 per hand, the ante is $1.
• If you’re betting $1000 to $1999, the ante is $2.
• If you’re betting $2000+, the ante is $3.

The first thing I’m going to do when calculating the house edge for the blackjack (including the fee) is to look at the game’s edge based on the rules in place. This also assumes you’re playing with perfect basic strategy.

As it turns out, the rules at the Winstar blackjack tables are excellent:

• They deal from 6 decks.
• The dealer stands on soft 17.
• No doubling after splitting.
• No surrender.
• You can double on any 2 cards.

Winstar Casino Craps Rules

With these rules in place, if you use perfect basic strategy, the house edge is only 0.56%.

But that’s not taking into account the 50 cent fee.

Here’s how we’re going to get to that number:

Let’s start with an expected hourly loss figure that doesn’t account for the ante.

When I was there, we only had an average of 3 players at the table–me, my lady friend, and usually one other person. (That person kept changing, but we hung in there for quite a while.)

According to the Wizard of Odds, I can expect 105 hands per hour at such a table. At $5 per hand, I’m putting $525 per hour into action.

Since I’m playing according to perfect basic strategy, my expected loss per hour just on the blackjack action (without the fee) is 0.56% of that, or $2.94/hour.

But I’m also losing 50 cents per hand to the fee. With 105 hands/hour, that’s another $52.50 in hourly losses. (I also get to add that to the hourly action.)

So with the fee, I’m wagering $577.50 and losing $55.40 of that.

That’s an effective house edge of 9.59%.

I don’t need to tell you that this has a terrible effect on what would otherwise be a great blackjack game.

What If You Increase Your Bet Sizes?

If you were paying attention during the roulette section, you probably already realize that if you raise the size of your bets, you can lower that house edge.

Let’s say you’re betting $99/hand instead. Now you’re putting $99 X 105 into action per hour, or $10,395. Your expected loss on that is $58.21.

You’re still paying $52.50 in fees, though, so your expected loss goes up to $110.71.

On total action of $10,447.50 in action, that’s a house edge of 1.1%.

Now that’s more like it. If you have the bankroll to afford this kind of action, it makes a lot of sense to bet $99/hand instead.

But here’s something interesting:

Watch what happens when you start betting $100/hand instead of $99/hand:

Your fee doubles. It’s now a dollar instead of 50 cents, which means that you now have $105 in hourly fees.

Your expected hourly loss besides that doesn’t change much. You’re putting $10,500 into action each hour instead of $10,447.50. Your expected loss on that is $58.80 instead of $58.21.

Add those together, and your hourly loss is $163.80 instead of $110.71.

So the house edge when you’re betting $99 is only 1.1%, but when you’re betting $100, it’s 1.54%.

If you really want to drop the house edge, though, just raise the size of your bets to $999.

$999 X 105 = $104,895

0.56% X $104,895 = $587.41

$587.41 + $105 = $692.41

$692.41/$105,000 = 0.65%

If you have the bankroll to afford that kind of action, it’s worth doing. You’ll find plenty of casinos in Las Vegas which don’t offer a house edge that low.

You might even be able to get an edge at this kind of game with a card counting strategy, although I suspect most people don’t have the bankroll for that. Also, I have a feeling–and I’ve read forum posts suggesting–that the security at the casinos in Oklahoma frown even more on blackjack advantage players than the casinos in Las Vegas do.

Conclusion

The fees (or so-called “antes”) for the roulette games and the blackjack games at the Winstar Casino in Oklahoma have a significant effect on the house edge.

In fact, if you’re a low roller, the best thing you can do is to avoid the roulette game altogether. If you do play roulette, try to avoid betting the minimum. Bet as much as you can comfortably afford, and remember that the house always wins in the long run anyway.

With the blackjack games, be careful with the amount you bet. The house edge can change dramatically between $99 and $100 per bet just because of the rising size of the fee.

You’ll find other posts in forums complaining about the antes at the casinos in Oklahoma. I’ll refrain from any histrionics here. You know what the deal is now, so if you want to play, that’s your business.

It does remind me of the old joke about the guy who plays in this lousy poker game. One of his buddies asks him, if the game’s so bad, why do you keep playing?

Because it’s the only game in town, he replies.

Many people will be visiting a casino this summer, whether on a trip to Vegas, on a cruise ship, or just at a local casino during a 'staycation.'

But before you go, you may want to know which games give you the best chance of winning.

So we went behind the scene at two casinos, and spoke with the game managers, to find out which games give you an edge.

Table Games Your Best Bet

Jay Bean, a Caesar's floor manager, agreed to sit down with us and talk about the games with the best odds.

He said many people don't realize that table games have much better odds than slots. They are intimidated by thoughts of card sharks taking their money, with images of an intense Texas Hold 'Em tournament in their minds, and so they stick with the safe games: the slots.

But they are doing themselves a disservice, he said.

Bean's advice? After you've spent some time on the slot machines, move on to the Blackjack table, and start by just observing.

1. Blackjack

Blackjack has the best odds of winning, with a house edge of just 1 percent in most casinos, Bean said.

Plus, you are playing against only the dealer, not hooded poker champions.

'Blackjack is one of our easiest games to play,' Bean said. 'You're just looking for a number that beats the dealer's number without going over 21.'

If you're a novice, Bean said to sit down during a less busy time, such as the afternoon, and the dealer will walk you through the game.

But the same is not true with poker: You should practice the game with your friends first, at home, Bean said, until you are comfortable with it. Bean said novices are best off passing on the poker tables, where yes, the competition can be tough.

You can find out more information about the game of blackjack at the following link:
http://wizardofodds.com/games/blackjack/

2. Craps

So from the Blackjack table, he suggests moving on to the dice game Craps, the game with the second best odds, also nearly 50-50.

The Craps table can be a bit intimidating for the beginner with all the boxes on the table, Bean admitted. But it's really not tough, and it has one of your best chances of winning. In the end, all you are really doing is betting on a dice roll.

For more information on craps, visit:
http://wizardofodds.com/games/craps/

3. Roulette

Bean said your next stop should be the Roulette wheel. It's simple, and pays fairly well.

'So you bet on your favorite numbers,' Bean said. 'The dealer spins, and if your number comes in you win.'

If you stick to betting on just Reds or Blacks, you have nearly a 50-50 chance of walking away a winner. If it lands on red when you choose red, you will double your bet, Bean explained.

While it may seem you have an even chance of winning by simply choosing a color, there is one catch that gives the house its edge: the extra green 0 and 00 position on the wheel. It's on all American roulette wheels.

Or, if you feel lucky, play just one number. It's hard to win, but if you do it pays out 36 to 1.

For more information on roulette, visit:
http://wizardofodds.com/games/roulette/

Worst Odds

Your worst odds? The casinos, understandably, did not want to talk about games with poor odds.

So we turned to Forbes Magazine, which in a report about Best Bets at the Casino, said two popular games -- the Wheel of Fortune and the ever-popular slot machines -- have the lowest odds of winning, with a house edge of 10 percent or more.

The Experts Agree

Winners At Winstar Casino

Professor of Analytics Michael Magazine has crunched the numbers, and agreed that blackjack is the best way to go home with money in your pockets. He said if you take a little time to learn the game, you have the best odds of winning.

'You are somewhere between 44 percent to 48 percent in every single hand of winning,' he said, noting that no other casino game gives you odds that good.

But Magazine cautioned that he's not promoting gambling, because he said even games with the best odds still favor the house.

'Play it long enough and you will lose. In the long term the house doesn't lose,' Magazine said.

If You Love The Slots....

Finally, if you really enjoy playing the slots, here is some good information to know, from state casino reports we examined.

With slots, the more money you put in per bet, the higher your chance of winning. If you put the max in a penny machine, which is usually around 50 cents, you have much better odds than if you put in 2 cents.

In addition, penny slots have the lowest odds, with $1 and $5 slots paying much better.

Craps At Winstar Casino

Always gamble responsibly, and don't waste your money.
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Winstar Casino Craps Odds

You can learn more about specific odds of slots machines in each state that has casino gambling by visiting the American Casino Guide.

Don't Waste Your Money is a registered trademark of the EW Scripps Co.

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